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	Comments on: Saint of the Week &#8211; 6 September 2015: Victoria, Australia, State Government	</title>
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	<link>https://www.heatherhastie.com/saint-of-the-week-6-september-2015-victoria-australia-state-government/</link>
	<description>My take on our world</description>
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		<title>
		By: Heather Hastie		</title>
		<link>https://www.heatherhastie.com/saint-of-the-week-6-september-2015-victoria-australia-state-government/#comment-4929</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Heather Hastie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2015 23:30:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.heatherhastie.com/?p=1259#comment-4929</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.heatherhastie.com/saint-of-the-week-6-september-2015-victoria-australia-state-government/#comment-4914&quot;&gt;David Evans&lt;/a&gt;.

I completely sympathize with you - I wouldn&#039;t want to put any message on a cake that was against any of my principles either. However, there&#039;s also the law, and if you&#039;re in business you can&#039;t oppose someone based solely on their ignorance.

This is a problem with human rights legislation being written to include religion (a choice) with things like race, colour, ethnicity, sexuality, sexual identity etc., that aren&#039;t a choice. It&#039;s the privileging of religion in our society, and it&#039;s wrong imo.

So, because of the way the law is, if we&#039;re going to make Davis issue marriage licences, we have to bake cakes for the ignorant.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.heatherhastie.com/saint-of-the-week-6-september-2015-victoria-australia-state-government/#comment-4914">David Evans</a>.</p>
<p>I completely sympathize with you &#8211; I wouldn&#8217;t want to put any message on a cake that was against any of my principles either. However, there&#8217;s also the law, and if you&#8217;re in business you can&#8217;t oppose someone based solely on their ignorance.</p>
<p>This is a problem with human rights legislation being written to include religion (a choice) with things like race, colour, ethnicity, sexuality, sexual identity etc., that aren&#8217;t a choice. It&#8217;s the privileging of religion in our society, and it&#8217;s wrong imo.</p>
<p>So, because of the way the law is, if we&#8217;re going to make Davis issue marriage licences, we have to bake cakes for the ignorant.</p>
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		<title>
		By: David Evans		</title>
		<link>https://www.heatherhastie.com/saint-of-the-week-6-september-2015-victoria-australia-state-government/#comment-4914</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Evans]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2015 08:13:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.heatherhastie.com/?p=1259#comment-4914</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.heatherhastie.com/saint-of-the-week-6-september-2015-victoria-australia-state-government/#comment-4865&quot;&gt;Heather Hastie&lt;/a&gt;.

I completely agree with you about Davis, but I&#039;m not sure about the cakes. Should I be compelled to write a message that says I have fewer human rights than other people?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.heatherhastie.com/saint-of-the-week-6-september-2015-victoria-australia-state-government/#comment-4865">Heather Hastie</a>.</p>
<p>I completely agree with you about Davis, but I&#8217;m not sure about the cakes. Should I be compelled to write a message that says I have fewer human rights than other people?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Heather Hastie		</title>
		<link>https://www.heatherhastie.com/saint-of-the-week-6-september-2015-victoria-australia-state-government/#comment-4865</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Heather Hastie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2015 23:14:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.heatherhastie.com/?p=1259#comment-4865</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.heatherhastie.com/saint-of-the-week-6-september-2015-victoria-australia-state-government/#comment-4860&quot;&gt;AU&lt;/a&gt;.

If this was a private business I might have some sympathy with your argument but:
1. Ms Davis&#039;s position is elected, not appointed, and she put herself forward for re-election just last year when everyone knew that same-sex marriage was likely to become the law of the land.
2. When she was elected, she swore an oath to carry out her duties. This is a government position, so she has to carry out all the laws, not just the ones she likes.
3. She could have delegated her authority to issue the licences to her deputies, who were willing to issue the licences. She refused to do so. The judge actually offered her this option to try and keep her out of jail.
4. The licences are not an endorsement of same-sex marriage, they are a legal document confirming people are legally eligible to marry. That&#039;s not the same thing.

I have sympathy with her not wanting to betray her beliefs, even though I think she&#039;s wrong, but I think she&#039;s determined to be a martyr. Her job legally requires her to issue marriage licences, and her employer did try and find a work around to accommodate her position. She wasn&#039;t willing to take it. That would have been a position I was able to respect - she would have been standing up for what she thinks is right. The actions she&#039;s taking are trying to force her beliefs onto others, and that&#039;s not on.

I don&#039;t think people should deliberately go around finding Christian bakeries and forcing them to bake cakes that say &quot;Support Gay Marriage.&quot; That&#039;s unfair - just find another bakery. But if there&#039;s only one bakery in town, that bakery should respect the law and bake the cake. Just like if the only bakery in town is run by a same-sex couple, they should be prepared to bake a cake that has an anti-gay marriage message on it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.heatherhastie.com/saint-of-the-week-6-september-2015-victoria-australia-state-government/#comment-4860">AU</a>.</p>
<p>If this was a private business I might have some sympathy with your argument but:<br />
1. Ms Davis&#8217;s position is elected, not appointed, and she put herself forward for re-election just last year when everyone knew that same-sex marriage was likely to become the law of the land.<br />
2. When she was elected, she swore an oath to carry out her duties. This is a government position, so she has to carry out all the laws, not just the ones she likes.<br />
3. She could have delegated her authority to issue the licences to her deputies, who were willing to issue the licences. She refused to do so. The judge actually offered her this option to try and keep her out of jail.<br />
4. The licences are not an endorsement of same-sex marriage, they are a legal document confirming people are legally eligible to marry. That&#8217;s not the same thing.</p>
<p>I have sympathy with her not wanting to betray her beliefs, even though I think she&#8217;s wrong, but I think she&#8217;s determined to be a martyr. Her job legally requires her to issue marriage licences, and her employer did try and find a work around to accommodate her position. She wasn&#8217;t willing to take it. That would have been a position I was able to respect &#8211; she would have been standing up for what she thinks is right. The actions she&#8217;s taking are trying to force her beliefs onto others, and that&#8217;s not on.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think people should deliberately go around finding Christian bakeries and forcing them to bake cakes that say &#8220;Support Gay Marriage.&#8221; That&#8217;s unfair &#8211; just find another bakery. But if there&#8217;s only one bakery in town, that bakery should respect the law and bake the cake. Just like if the only bakery in town is run by a same-sex couple, they should be prepared to bake a cake that has an anti-gay marriage message on it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AU		</title>
		<link>https://www.heatherhastie.com/saint-of-the-week-6-september-2015-victoria-australia-state-government/#comment-4860</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AU]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2015 16:29:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.heatherhastie.com/?p=1259#comment-4860</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It isn&#039;t the fault of Ms Davis - it is the law. The law should state that if issuing a marriage certificate is against someone&#039;s beliefs, then they should not have to issue marriage certificates and responsibility immediately goes to someone else.

We had a similar case in the UK recently, where a Christian bakery refused to bake a cake with the slogan &quot;Support Gay Marriage&quot;, and they were found guilty of discrimination. Ridiculous. If you believe gay marriage is wrong, why should you have to write a slogan that says it is ok.

Too many people are too selfish and think only about themselves, and do not respect the beliefs of others. If I was gay, and a bakery said the message &quot;Support Gay Marriage&quot; is against their beliefes, I would respect that, and go to another bakery, even though I do not agree with their beliefs. It&#039;s called respect. Unfortunately, some sections of the LGBT community and militant atheists are too busy forcing their views onto others, they cry &quot;tolerance&quot;, but are not willing to apply the same tolerance when it comes to others.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It isn&#8217;t the fault of Ms Davis &#8211; it is the law. The law should state that if issuing a marriage certificate is against someone&#8217;s beliefs, then they should not have to issue marriage certificates and responsibility immediately goes to someone else.</p>
<p>We had a similar case in the UK recently, where a Christian bakery refused to bake a cake with the slogan &#8220;Support Gay Marriage&#8221;, and they were found guilty of discrimination. Ridiculous. If you believe gay marriage is wrong, why should you have to write a slogan that says it is ok.</p>
<p>Too many people are too selfish and think only about themselves, and do not respect the beliefs of others. If I was gay, and a bakery said the message &#8220;Support Gay Marriage&#8221; is against their beliefes, I would respect that, and go to another bakery, even though I do not agree with their beliefs. It&#8217;s called respect. Unfortunately, some sections of the LGBT community and militant atheists are too busy forcing their views onto others, they cry &#8220;tolerance&#8221;, but are not willing to apply the same tolerance when it comes to others.</p>
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