One thing I think Christians are delusional about is the fact that there’s no proof whatsoever that Jesus even existed.

You accept scripture, but the Bible is simply wrong from its opening verse about how how the world and people were created.

The Bible constantly contradicts itself, and there’s a lot of pretty evil stuff in there. I find Christians tend to go for the religion that interprets it in a way that they like. For example, the Bible has a lot more to say about not eating shellfish that homosexuality, but the shellfish thing is ignored. And the Bible says eating anything made from pigs etc is an abomination, but I bet that doesn’t stop most Christians from eating them.

I actually agree that whether or not you are a Christian is a decision that someone should make freely as an adult. However, most people don’t get that chance because they’re inculcated in the religion of their parents from earliest childhood.

Just to let you know, your comments didn’t come up at first because you’d never commented before. You will have no problem now, as long as you follow the Comments Guidelines. I appreciate your efforts to debate the issues without vitriol.

Folks, upon reflection, I should not have included the aside “(as it will)” in my first reply to BigBillK’s comment – that probably came across as arrogant. I apologize for any offence caused. I was trying to help those reading it realize that this is not just some intellectual, academic debate – it’s (eternal) life and death stuff – there’s nothing more important.

Which brings me to my second point: Israel has been very clear that he got his tattoos during his “BC” period, AND that he greatly regrets them (ie: he has had a change of heart about – repented of – getting them).

Which leads to Point 3: you state that he posted that “all gays are going to hell”, as if it’s an absolute – if you are going to quote someone, please do it properly/fairly. His post also says: “repent” and “… Jesus saves” – the same message (in different words) as his first post on the subject, when, in answer to the very loaded question (from someone who is NOT neutral on this topic): “What is god’s (sic) plan for gays?” he said: “Hell… unless they repent”. (Personally, I think it would have been far better for all concerned if he had replied along these lines: (‘What is God’s plan for gays?’ ) – Peace. Freedom. Joy. Contentment. And more. In this life, and the next – once they are willing to humble themselves, and surrender their hearts and lives to Jesus Christ. That is God’s plan for ALL of us. That is why He allowed His Son to take on our humanity, and our punishment, and die in our place. But because we are made in God’s image, with the (risky) gift of free will, God CANNOT and WILL NOT force us to accept His free gift of peace and right-standing with Him in and thru Jesus Christ. Yeah. I really wish Izzy had couched his reply in those terms. Still truthful, but more positive, and less polarising)

He has a contract that includes not bringing his employer into disrepute and not making homophobic statements either on the job or publicly. He signed that contract.

He can hold those views, he can speak about them openly in private situations. That includes his church.

I agree that most people should be able to hold and express those views outside their job, and being a public figure shouldn’t change that. In this case, Folau signed a contract. He is bound by that contract.

I don’t know what the Australian constitution says about freedom of speech. It may be that Folau could challenge his contract on the grounds that it’s unconstitutional. However, in the meantime, he needs to abide by it.

But does being a public figure mean one loses the right to speak ones mind in public and declare ones religious views? I don’t think it does.

Does being a high-profile public figure mean that ones employer then has the right to regulate your private speech?

That’s more arguable, but as a free-speech advocate I’d answer that no it doesn’t. The employer should merely regulate any speech that directly concerns the job, and regard anything outside that as not their business (and the media and everyone else should accept that principle and not go after the employer).

It depends on the situation. Because of his job, Folau is a major public figure who is looked up to by many, including children. Apart from the part of his contract specifically related to homophobic remarks, he’s not supposed to make comments that bring the ARU into disrepute.

The NZRU has just elected Michael Jones to its Board. When he was a player, he refused to play on Sundays. He has fundamentalist Christian views too. His statement was that Folau was a friend and he understood where he was coming from, but that he could have shown a lot more grace in the way he expressed himself.

TJ Perenara has received praise from the All Blacks coach for his statements on Twitter.