It’s those who claim that God is real who have to explain what He is. I find none of your attempts at doing that convincing. And then because you can’t adequately explain, that somehow becomes a failure on my part to understand. I’m not sufficiently in touch with how YOU feel, so I’m inadequate. Everything you say can be explained without invoking God. Until you can prove that God makes a difference in reality and not just in the minds of believers, you have nothing to offer.

There are no gods. God is the source of reality.

He is not real because of anything that I do, but rather he is real because it is his essence.

Your God is just another of the gods – a figment of the imagination like all the others. You’re free to believe he’s real. That’s fine with me. Your belief makes no difference to reality.

On that note, we’re in complete agreement. We’re not talking about “gods”.

There are no gods, except in the minds of people.

Those three things are attributes of people, not God.

I looked a lot for many years. Don’t make assumptions that my “failure” in your eyes is due to ignorance, not trying hard enough etc.

They all see those outside their tribe as “less” in some way. Almost all of them see women as secondary to men. The rest see men as secondary to women. All are about controlling behaviour in at least some ways that have no effect on the wellbeing of others and are therefore unnecessary. Those three things are enough to put me off.

“You can know all the facts in the world and not be wise – I’m sure you’d agree with that one at least.”

Indeed — that’s one of the very key points I’ve been trying to make.

Since every theology you have encountered so far is unsatisfactory, what does a better theology look like? Wouldn’t it make sense to ask that question, so that you’d be more likely to know the real thing if you happen to stumble upon it?

What would God’s presence have to be like, for it to be worth acknowledging? Seems like that would be a more fruitful question than simply, “Is God there”?

Gandhi is not talking about evolution. He is talking about a meme. Just because previous generations felt the same way he does, and you do, does not make it evidence. I have no wish to denigrate your personal feelings. They are very real to you, just as my feelings are real to me. That doesn’t make them verifiable facts.

Truth and wisdom are not the same thing. You can know all the facts in the world and not be wise – I’m sure you’d agree with that one at least.

Like you, Gandhi is beginning with the premise that God is real. Before I believe God is real, I need proof, though even if God turns out to be real, I still won’t worship him if he bears any relation to the God worshiped by every religion I’ve encountered so far.

He’s not talking about feelings. He’s not talking about evolution. He most certainly is not talking about me.

Wisdom does not come from a lab. You won’t find truth under a microscope. Realizing this takes nothing away from the benefits of empirical investigation. However, this realization helps us see that the divine milieu far surpasses what we think we can, in principle, observe.