I’m currently reading this account of a discussion on morality between Sam Harris and Noam Chomsky. I’d be interested in your take on it. http://www.alternet.org/belief/sam-harris-made-himself-look-idiot-email-exchange-chomsky-and-has-shared-it-world?akid=13069.1140325.QKDSN9&rd=1&src=newsletter1035802&t=11

I get much more upset at Christian hatred of other religions, and demonization of their followers as less than fully human. This was certainly a big factor in western imperialism from the 16th through the 20th centuries, and a much bigger factor than is recognized in the west, in the Bush/Blair invasion of Iraq. It’s very disheartening to see atheists joining with Christian zealots in this activity. Israel too proclaims itself a secular state, but it is largely religious zealots, proclaiming that God gave them all of Canaan, that is driving the settlement movement appropriating Palestinian land.

As for bias in reporting about atheism in the US, you chose a right-wing evangelical rag as your example. There are plenty of atheists denouncing Christians in the US also. It’s called freedom of speech, of which you and I are both proponents.

My country does many things wrong, for example: http://world.einnews.com/article/263380001/dHIn3_scgBbysmI-?afid=777&utm_source=MailingList&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Breaking+News%3A+world1022-Sunday and http://world.einnews.com/article/263380214/RFsmsGFHj-ECGLRd?afid=777&utm_source=MailingList&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Breaking+News%3A+world1022-Sunday. Putting biblical passages on public buildings and bias against atheists are among the less pressing concerns of atheist Americans who are more concerned about acting justly and loving mercy than trying to eliminate ancient myths. I guess that makes me a Social Justice Warrior. It wasn’t my term, and it seems to be used as a term of opprobrium, but it seems apt, so I’ll adopt it.

I’ve started to read the “appalling” article you linked on social Darwinism and will respond later. There is no doubt that social Darwinism was disastrous perversion of Darwin’s discovery of evolution by natural selection, just as Christian religions have been disastrous perversions of the teachings of Jesus.

Peace Heather. Thanks again for raising these issues and offering me and others a chance to discuss them with you. Argue yes, condemn not.

Hi Paxton. I’ve written about bias against atheists in the media before and I will again. I read stuff like this every day in the US media (no exaggeration) and most of it is actually far worse than this. If you’re going to condemn me because of the way you interpret a headline, go ahead, but that’s a bit unreasonable imo.

I don’t condemn the Bible as a book, I condemn those who use it as their primary source of knowledge and morality. How you could get that I take any other stance from anything I have written here or before bemuses me.

Acting justly and loving mercy is, of course, good advice. Walking “humbly with your god” is not precisely what it says, and is not good advice anyway. It capitalizes God, and provides the Biblical reference, thus is specifically referring to the Christian God. To say that the quote:

… is an implicit recognition that “your god” is unique to every individual.

is completely inaccurate. Besides, I find it both offensive and inaccurate that my particular set of ethics and morals should be referred to as my “god”. Being humble is good; prostrating yourself to any god is not imo.

My statement that it is illegal in AMerica to to put a Biblical quote on a state building is accurate. You can check it by checking the precedents in the FFRF letter. It violates the US constitutional principle of separation of religion and the state.

I don’t think we should deny the good things that are said in religious texts, and have said that before. Also, as an historian I recognize the great importance of having a knowledge of religion in understanding our history and culture.

The point of this article is that the University of Florida has done something illegal, but it is the group that pointed it out that is being criticized instead of the one doing something illegal. This is typical in America when it is an atheist group doing the pointing out because of the animus towards atheists in your country. Usually it’s much worse than this. Check out this appalling article from earlier in the week for example: http://linkis.com/www.renewamerica.com/yT9fc

Second, the Bible, like the holy books of other religions, are precious resources of human thought. Are you going to ban Homer or Shakespeare quotes from buildings? I’m as opposed to religious privilege as any atheist, but to try to exclude the Ten Commandments, for example, from courthouses, seems counterproductive and simply wrong.

In spite of the unpleasant context, it would be hard to find better advice for business students (or to anyone) than “to act justly and to love mercy” Moreover, though the literal interpretation is theistic, the verse itself can take on a humanistic interpretation: “walk humbly with your god” is an implicit recognition that “your god” is unique to every individual. And that’s not bad advice either.

In any case, as a raging leftie, I am totally opposed to the view of the college Fix, but as an atheist American, I hope you are not right that it is illegal to put a quotation from the Bible (or the Quran or…) in the public space. Wouldn’t that be a violation of free speech?

Finally, to atheists everywhere, I suggest that to deny that much of the wisdom of the human experience is framed in religious imagery, is to deny the rationality you claim to embrace.

Yeah. It’s the principle of the whole thing, rather than the thing itself that’s important.

I feel the same way as you and AU.

Although there is the chance of it someday being used as a precedent for something more weighty–as the carving of Moses (along with other figures of different faiths) on the frieze of the Supreme Court Building is used to “prove” that the US was founded as a Christian nation..

I think similarly AU. It is definitely in the #FirstWorldProblems realm. If it was me, I wouldn’t like the verse, but it would make absolutely no difference to how I felt about myself or my education. There are some it would affect though. I feel like I should make an effort to see their point of view, even if I personally think they’re being a bit precious.

Of course, the point is it’s illegal, so at the end of the day how anybody feels is irrelevant.

All students should be able to feel welcome at their university, whatever their background, but every time a student who does not accept what is written above the entrance to the new Business School, there’s a chance they will feel fundamentally excluded. That’s simply not on.

I couldn’t give a sh*t if there was a verse from someone’s holy book over some door and I walked under it each day. There are way too many other things going on in the world for me to be worried about than something like this #FirstWorldProblems

I love hoe FFRF put the quotation in context too – really pwnd them!

There’s a bit in FFRF’s letter that refers to sponsor requirements:

The fact that the building was funded by donations does not cure the constitutional violation.

And goes on to cite a SCOTUS ruling for that stance too, so the university can quote that to the no doubt demanding-of-Biblical-reference sponsor. In short, they can’t get around it that way, if they want to try.