That’s a fair criticism. It’s also sort of my point. They weren’t integrated into European society well, though some countries did better than others.

The faith schools in Britain is more a problem of government policy and one I agree is bad. However, although there are, for example, Muslim schools that teach some problematic values, there are not madrasses like are being funded in Afghanistan etc by Saudi Arabia.

The Muslim schools are required to teach to the national curriculum. Many are doing that badly or improperly and getting away with it, and the whole funding model is screwed. There are Christian schools getting away with teaching Creationism too.

I’m not convinced there are madrasses instead of proper schools. There are surely some mosques that have extremist imams. The same could be said for most religions though there are currently problems that make extremist Islam worse. I’ve also noticed accusations of extremism have been exposed as being false. It’s usually isolated people like Choudary, and he’s been dealt with now, though it took a while.

I’ve been seeing this series advertised on CNN for a few weeks now and am planning to watch it. However, there’s already a lot about it I have difficulty with, such as there seems to be an underlying premise that all belief systems are valid. Obviously, I’ll hold off on judging until I see it.

The ‘Islamic’ problem in Europe has not really much to do with political or war refugees. Most European Muslims are (descendants of) immigrant labour -cheap labour. It started in the sixties. Other immigrant groups, such as Italians and Poles have integrated pretty well. Later, waves of ‘welfare’ migrants came too. None of these groups, contrary to refugees, would have a possible tendency to be predisposed in favour of Western-type democracy.
I do not think that Europe treating them ‘badly’ is the cause of the non-integration. On the contrary, the multiculturalism model, where muslims were allowed to get away with things you and I could not, is much more to blame. And then the religious education and schools Ayaan is so much opposed to. It allowed for these madrassas and imams systematically spewing hatred and contempt for ‘Western’ civilazation and democracy.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/reza-aslan-believer-cnn_us_58a647a2e4b07602ad53281f

I don’t know whether it’s true either, though I’d be surprised if they’d say it if it wasn’t. Of course, there could be some nuance they’re not mentioning as well, like different groups tackling different motivations.

Ha ha. 🙂

Yes, those are major themes the recruiters play on. A lot of it is about standing up for your fellow Muslims. I’m not sure how I didn’t mention them.

The taking of the oil one is another that both McCain and Graham on the GOP side have joined others in talking about. It would also be a war crime if the US did it.

The recruiters take disaffected young people and give them a purpose, and they’re skilled at knowing which buttons to push. It’s different for every person.

Sheesh, as Noah says, it is disgusting that Trump’s so-called anti-terrorism efforts will specifically ignore the majority of actual terrorists in the US, ie white terrorists. I haven’t verified this and would really like it to be untrue, but it’s just so believable isn’t it.

Hmmm, he could have been channeling me too, Heather!

All great points, Heather, but you did leave out the important justice dimension, because we know a large proportion of the recruits are not very religious. Particularly the Western recruits often simply aren’t fighting and dying for Islam, but for the many Muslims who they perceive have been wronged. Much of this injustice comes from Western violence in the ME, but is being compounded by Trump’s rhetorical targeting of so many, even if not all, Muslims, and making life harder for refugees, who certainly aren’t thinking about trips to Disney or any other holidays in the States, but about the survival of their families. And Trump adding that we should have stolen Iraqi oil when we had a chance is just another reason for them to claim the US is at war with all Muslims, rather than just jihadis.