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	Comments on: Making Excuses for Islam and FGM	</title>
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	<description>My take on our world</description>
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		By: Dublin couple sentenced to long jail terms for female genital mutilation &#171; Why Evolution Is True		</title>
		<link>https://www.heatherhastie.com/making-excuses-islam-fgm/#comment-33068</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dublin couple sentenced to long jail terms for female genital mutilation &#171; Why Evolution Is True]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Feb 2020 20:31:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.heatherhastie.com/?p=3913#comment-33068</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] FGM is widespread in Africa and Asia, it&#8217;s largely, as Heather Hastie pointed out in 2017, a Muslim practice—almost entirely so in Asia. Of the four schools of Sunni Islam, as Heather notes [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] FGM is widespread in Africa and Asia, it&#8217;s largely, as Heather Hastie pointed out in 2017, a Muslim practice—almost entirely so in Asia. Of the four schools of Sunni Islam, as Heather notes [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Judge drops charges against Detroit doctor for practicing female genital mutilation &#171; Why Evolution Is True		</title>
		<link>https://www.heatherhastie.com/making-excuses-islam-fgm/#comment-26913</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Judge drops charges against Detroit doctor for practicing female genital mutilation &#171; Why Evolution Is True]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2018 15:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.heatherhastie.com/?p=3913#comment-26913</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] even in Western countries, who approve of and even practice female genital mutilation (FGM). As Heather Hastie has written, FGM is practiced widely by Muslims, and has been approved by several sects of Islam. It&#8217;s [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] even in Western countries, who approve of and even practice female genital mutilation (FGM). As Heather Hastie has written, FGM is practiced widely by Muslims, and has been approved by several sects of Islam. It&#8217;s [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: nicky		</title>
		<link>https://www.heatherhastie.com/making-excuses-islam-fgm/#comment-15235</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nicky]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Apr 2017 00:27:29 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.heatherhastie.com/making-excuses-islam-fgm/#comment-15195&quot;&gt;Leigh Jackson&lt;/a&gt;.

Tell that to the mollahs. If you have any impact so much the better. Anything  that will reduce the practice is welcomed  (immo). If that means only cutting a part of the prepuce, I&#039;m all for it.0]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.heatherhastie.com/making-excuses-islam-fgm/#comment-15195">Leigh Jackson</a>.</p>
<p>Tell that to the mollahs. If you have any impact so much the better. Anything  that will reduce the practice is welcomed  (immo). If that means only cutting a part of the prepuce, I&#8217;m all for it.0</p>
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		<title>
		By: nicky		</title>
		<link>https://www.heatherhastie.com/making-excuses-islam-fgm/#comment-15226</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nicky]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Apr 2017 18:49:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.heatherhastie.com/?p=3913#comment-15226</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.heatherhastie.com/making-excuses-islam-fgm/#comment-15192&quot;&gt;Katherine&lt;/a&gt;.

Yes, Heather made the first two points very clearly. Did you read the OP? Your third point is interesting, and I think it might be true, but it is in dire need of some data.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.heatherhastie.com/making-excuses-islam-fgm/#comment-15192">Katherine</a>.</p>
<p>Yes, Heather made the first two points very clearly. Did you read the OP? Your third point is interesting, and I think it might be true, but it is in dire need of some data.</p>
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		<title>
		By: nicky		</title>
		<link>https://www.heatherhastie.com/making-excuses-islam-fgm/#comment-15211</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nicky]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:25:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.heatherhastie.com/?p=3913#comment-15211</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.heatherhastie.com/making-excuses-islam-fgm/#comment-15199&quot;&gt;Heather Hastie&lt;/a&gt;.

It is not that there are no other religions that have laws that are different from the laws of a specific country, but Sharia is proposed, and pushed, against those very laws: it is contended it should be imposed regardless. That is a good reason -and hence fair- to single it out, methinks.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.heatherhastie.com/making-excuses-islam-fgm/#comment-15199">Heather Hastie</a>.</p>
<p>It is not that there are no other religions that have laws that are different from the laws of a specific country, but Sharia is proposed, and pushed, against those very laws: it is contended it should be imposed regardless. That is a good reason -and hence fair- to single it out, methinks.</p>
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		<title>
		By: nicky		</title>
		<link>https://www.heatherhastie.com/making-excuses-islam-fgm/#comment-15210</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nicky]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:12:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.heatherhastie.com/?p=3913#comment-15210</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.heatherhastie.com/making-excuses-islam-fgm/#comment-15200&quot;&gt;Heather Hastie&lt;/a&gt;.

Yes, if the &#039;demand&#039; could be satisfied by the removal of part of the prepuce, we would go a long way towards the goal of limiting the mutilation. Reduced to a mutilation so minor as to be happy about.
Since Mohammed allegedly (if we accept his existence) said not to overdo it, it should be compatible with Islam. I would love to see those imams to be more clear on that.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.heatherhastie.com/making-excuses-islam-fgm/#comment-15200">Heather Hastie</a>.</p>
<p>Yes, if the &#8216;demand&#8217; could be satisfied by the removal of part of the prepuce, we would go a long way towards the goal of limiting the mutilation. Reduced to a mutilation so minor as to be happy about.<br />
Since Mohammed allegedly (if we accept his existence) said not to overdo it, it should be compatible with Islam. I would love to see those imams to be more clear on that.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Heather Hastie		</title>
		<link>https://www.heatherhastie.com/making-excuses-islam-fgm/#comment-15208</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Heather Hastie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Apr 2017 14:27:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.heatherhastie.com/?p=3913#comment-15208</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.heatherhastie.com/making-excuses-islam-fgm/#comment-15203&quot;&gt;nicky&lt;/a&gt;.

Everything I&#039;ve read says it&#039;s a more mild form that&#039;s usually done there. I believe the most common form is the removal of a small part of the prepuce. If one of the worse forms was done, I&#039;d say this form was a good first step towards stopping it if they were unable to persuade them to stop altogether. (WHO, UNICEF etc have focused their efforts on countries where the worst forms are done.) This milder form is the type the Indonesian government promoted as the &quot;proper&quot; way to do it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.heatherhastie.com/making-excuses-islam-fgm/#comment-15203">nicky</a>.</p>
<p>Everything I&#8217;ve read says it&#8217;s a more mild form that&#8217;s usually done there. I believe the most common form is the removal of a small part of the prepuce. If one of the worse forms was done, I&#8217;d say this form was a good first step towards stopping it if they were unable to persuade them to stop altogether. (WHO, UNICEF etc have focused their efforts on countries where the worst forms are done.) This milder form is the type the Indonesian government promoted as the &#8220;proper&#8221; way to do it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: nicky		</title>
		<link>https://www.heatherhastie.com/making-excuses-islam-fgm/#comment-15203</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nicky]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Apr 2017 02:04:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.heatherhastie.com/?p=3913#comment-15203</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.heatherhastie.com/making-excuses-islam-fgm/#comment-15200&quot;&gt;Heather Hastie&lt;/a&gt;.

The only thing I could find is that it came to Indonesia in the 13th century with the arrival of Islam (supports your thesis there).  And that it has been &#039;prevalent&#039; since, whatever that means.
On the other hand, years ago I also read some Dutch colonial &#039;literature&#039; about sexual exploits of the colonialists, but even in detailed descriptions of the &#039;pussies&#039; (and detailed they are), there is no mention of mutilation. 
There is also the notion that some of the FGM in Indonesia did not involve actual cutting, but piercing and/or extracting some blood.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.heatherhastie.com/making-excuses-islam-fgm/#comment-15200">Heather Hastie</a>.</p>
<p>The only thing I could find is that it came to Indonesia in the 13th century with the arrival of Islam (supports your thesis there).  And that it has been &#8216;prevalent&#8217; since, whatever that means.<br />
On the other hand, years ago I also read some Dutch colonial &#8216;literature&#8217; about sexual exploits of the colonialists, but even in detailed descriptions of the &#8216;pussies&#8217; (and detailed they are), there is no mention of mutilation.<br />
There is also the notion that some of the FGM in Indonesia did not involve actual cutting, but piercing and/or extracting some blood.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Heather Hastie		</title>
		<link>https://www.heatherhastie.com/making-excuses-islam-fgm/#comment-15200</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Heather Hastie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Apr 2017 17:39:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.heatherhastie.com/?p=3913#comment-15200</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.heatherhastie.com/making-excuses-islam-fgm/#comment-15197&quot;&gt;nicky&lt;/a&gt;.

I don&#039;t know the data, but I&#039;m not so sure that FGM is like the chador, burka, niqab etc. Even societies that otherwise treat women reasonably well, like the Kurds, practice FGM. It&#039;s been something that&#039;s been going on for centuries. If there had been a break under colonial government, which I very much doubt, it&#039;s unlikely to have started again. Afaik, it never stopped. 

Colonial governments introduced their law codes, but weren&#039;t known for protecting women from religious or cultural rites. It&#039;s only recently that any of those same governments have introduced anti-FGM laws in the West and there&#039;s no reason to think they had them in colonial times. I think if they had, or if there&#039;d been a reduction in FGM under colonial law, we&#039;d know about it. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.heatherhastie.com/making-excuses-islam-fgm/#comment-15197">nicky</a>.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know the data, but I&#8217;m not so sure that FGM is like the chador, burka, niqab etc. Even societies that otherwise treat women reasonably well, like the Kurds, practice FGM. It&#8217;s been something that&#8217;s been going on for centuries. If there had been a break under colonial government, which I very much doubt, it&#8217;s unlikely to have started again. Afaik, it never stopped. </p>
<p>Colonial governments introduced their law codes, but weren&#8217;t known for protecting women from religious or cultural rites. It&#8217;s only recently that any of those same governments have introduced anti-FGM laws in the West and there&#8217;s no reason to think they had them in colonial times. I think if they had, or if there&#8217;d been a reduction in FGM under colonial law, we&#8217;d know about it. </p>
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		<title>
		By: Heather Hastie		</title>
		<link>https://www.heatherhastie.com/making-excuses-islam-fgm/#comment-15199</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Heather Hastie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Apr 2017 17:26:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.heatherhastie.com/?p=3913#comment-15199</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.heatherhastie.com/making-excuses-islam-fgm/#comment-15193&quot;&gt;Rasmo Carenna&lt;/a&gt;.

The reason I think the laws to ban it are potentially a sign of prejudice is because US law is already in force, and takes priority over all other laws. Already, no one can put any other law code above US law in that country. Sharia is no different. It is already illegal for Sharia to take precedence in any situation, just like it&#039;s illegal for NZ law to trump US law in the US. 

These Detroit doctors allegedly performing or enabling FGM have been charged with a crime under US law. That they were acting legally under Sharia is not a potential defence. A specific law against Sharia was not required to charge them. 

Also, if Sharia is going to be singled out, that&#039;s not fair. There are plenty of other religions that have laws that are different from the laws of a country. We live with that. We put up with multiple religions railing against abortion, contraception, adultery etc, telling people they will burn in hell for eternity for engaging in those things for example, but none of those things are illegal under the law. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.heatherhastie.com/making-excuses-islam-fgm/#comment-15193">Rasmo Carenna</a>.</p>
<p>The reason I think the laws to ban it are potentially a sign of prejudice is because US law is already in force, and takes priority over all other laws. Already, no one can put any other law code above US law in that country. Sharia is no different. It is already illegal for Sharia to take precedence in any situation, just like it&#8217;s illegal for NZ law to trump US law in the US. </p>
<p>These Detroit doctors allegedly performing or enabling FGM have been charged with a crime under US law. That they were acting legally under Sharia is not a potential defence. A specific law against Sharia was not required to charge them. </p>
<p>Also, if Sharia is going to be singled out, that&#8217;s not fair. There are plenty of other religions that have laws that are different from the laws of a country. We live with that. We put up with multiple religions railing against abortion, contraception, adultery etc, telling people they will burn in hell for eternity for engaging in those things for example, but none of those things are illegal under the law. </p>
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