You think we haven’t already been doing these things Heather? What are the new atheists proposing that is constructive for peace and overall moral progress?

We can be mediators and diplomats, we can provide advice on setting up civil institutions, how to conduct elections, more efficient farming methods, better education methods, policy development, town planning. There are literally hundreds of ways we can help.

I’ve explained the Harris thing ad infinitum. Someone sent me this link yesterday – a link to an interview with Eiynah of the Nice Mangos blog. She’s another one with similar opinions to mine on the subject. Perhaps another voice will help: http://www.cbc.ca/radio/the180/unheard-muslim-voices-banning-dangerous-dogs-and-a-plea-for-plain-language-1.3393360/speaking-up-for-unheard-muslim-and-ex-muslim-voices-1.3394359

Heather, what kind of help do you think we can give the people of the Middle East except humanitarian aid and to let them sort things out themselves. I never see anything from NAs about how they are going to help except to tell them how bad their religion is. And to condemn anyone in the west who supports them.

And please explain how saying we are sleepwalking towards Armaggedon is “talking about things the right way”” and not “spreading fear and.the desire to kill”.

And that’s why NAs like Sam Harris (and me, though obviously I’m several rungs down the ladder) talk about it. It has to be talked about properly, not the way the Right is doing it. They spread fear and the desire to kill. Too many of them don’t understand the effect of that kind of talk, or how it sounds to those they call “enemy”.

In the GOP debate post I pointed out Jeb Bush’s comment, “You [Trump] cannot make rash statements and expect the rest of the world to respond as if, ‘Well, it’s just politics’.” He gets mocked as not being strong enough for saying things like that but that’s sort of where NAs are coming from (although Bush isn’t exactly a role model of course). We have to have respectful dialogue with the majority of Muslims while at the same time addressing the issue of Islamism. The ME can’t do it alone – they need help. But the West has always provided the wrong kind of help. We need to let them tell us what they want us to do, but politics in the US means they can’t be seen as anything other than the leader and controller of the process.

Heather, yes the threat of Islamic terrorism is real, but the threat of further terrorism by the west (US/UK/israel etc, and their clients on the Arabian peninsula and in Egypt, is real also. You listen to Fox and the Republican debates, so you are aware of the widespread hostility in the US towards all things Muslim, that allowed Bush to get away with the Iraq invasion and occupation. The Republican candidates make it clear that we could have a repeat. In this environment, how can any responsible person add to the danger by saying we are sleepwalking toward Armageddon I just don’t get it.

Please stop saying that Harris and Coyne malign Muslims. They don’t. That is the difference between NAs and the right. What they disagree with is the teachings of Islam.

I don’t know what Harris thinks, but at least in his dialogue with Nawaz he is trying. He recognizes that the change has to come from within Islam, and that there is actually very little he can do personally except support the efforts of those who are working to reform Islam. In the meantime, the threat of violence from a Islamists is real, if much smaller than the right would have you believe.

Heather, what are the “solutions” proposed by leftist Islamic critics like the new atheists? We know what the solutions of the right are–war. Here are two short articles that illustrate that:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2016/01/15/the-dismal-dark-traitor-filled-world-republican-candidates-inhabit/?wpmm=1&wpisrc=nl_most

http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/they-make-cheney-look-chomsky-cruz-trump-rubio-and-frightening-bellicosity-todays-gop?akid=13888.1951870.WvBqW3&rd=1&src=newsletter1049029&t=4

When new atheists like Harris say we are sleepwalking toward Armageddon, what solution are they offering rather than war. Does Harris really think he and Nawaz are going to initiate a reform movement that will transform Islam? I see no other solution being offered. The political atmosphere in the US is not dominated by those who ignore the threat of Islam. It is dominated by those who exaggerate the threat of Islam, sow fear among the people, and denigrate those who don’t have the same apocalyptic view that they have. Harris and Coyne may despise many of they other views of their allies in the effort to malign Islam and Muslims, but they are allies none the less.

I can’t remember exactly how it went either, and as I said, I know those words were there. There was more to the sentence – it was along the lines of the left needing to talk about the subject honestly or we’ll be left with the right being the only ones who’ll talk about it, and we’ll be stuck with their solutions.

Heather, I got that from Harris’ podcast “Still Sleepwalking toward Armaggedon”. I don’t have a transcript and don’t feel like listening to it again, but it’s in my notes and I’m sure it’s there.

That’s not what he said, although those words were in the sentence he used. I don’t think you’re dishonest, so I assume you got that quote via one of those who frequently misrepresents him.